Notes from an interview with Philippe Sands, author of Torture Team

The other night I was listening to Fresh Air with Terry Gross and caught this interview with Philippe Sands, a professor of law at the University College of London. It’s worth listening to the entire piece.

He talks about his book, Torture Team: Rumsfeld’s Memo and the Betrayal of American Values, which was released this past May. In a nutshell, his opinion as expressed to Terry Gross is that although George W. Bush and Dick Cheney may not be investigated for war crimes including torture, those in the administration that were behind the development of the policies that allowed for torture in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, etc. may indeed be targets of investigation.

There was some talk about the idea of establishing a committee under the Obama administration, which may be a way of avoiding actual international trials. Sands discussed the possibility of Bush issuing preemptive pardons for some, possibly including Donald Rumsfeld, William Haynes, and James Abbington. Sands’ opinion is that if this is done, the United States will have missed an opportunity to prove that it is serious about righting the wrongs that it has perpetrated through its disregard of the international outlaw of use of torture.  Following that missed opportunity, the door would be open for another country to pursue these investigations, and another country, he feels, would in fact be obliged to pursue these investigations.

He mentioned another potential out that South Africa used following the demise of institutionalized apartheid, which was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.  The idea behind this process is that perpetrators giving testimony are granted amnesty, but their hearings are also based on the understanding that while they may have thought that what they did was best and justifiable at the time, they realize now that they were wrong and they regret their actions.

In the case of Dick Cheney, a truth and reconciliation process would be moot since he insists that his actions were right.

It will be interesting to follow this process.  What moves the USG makes will be crucial in the coming weeks.  Unfortunately Sands believes that the top men in the administration, Bush and Cheney, will be exempt from eventual prosecution, but believes that those lower down will be loathe to make any travel plans soon.  He cites the case of Pinochet, who, believing he was safe from Spain, sought medical care in England in the early 1990s and was subsequently extradited through an agreement between the two countries.

What remains clear is that some action on the part of either the USG or another country is crucial and inevitable, to demonstrate that the UN Convention Against Torture is not  to be taken lightly by its signatories, and that even in the context of international law, enforcement can be possible.

The US has set an example in spearheading the establishment of guidelines to outlaw torture; if those flaunting the rules are not investigated and possibly prosecuted, the message to the rest of the world will be one of permission.

ETA: There is a blog post on the ACLU Blog of Rights citing Sands in an excerpt from another book called Administration of Terror, authored by two ACLU attorneys.  I’m adding this to my reading list along with Torture Team.